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Honesty
J.F. wrote: NJ. responds: I think it goes deeper than that NJ. The real question to ask of one who is being less than forthright is "what is your motivation?". If one is motivated by a desire to be harmless in a situation, then they will choose the balance between mercy than severity, in accordance with their maturity and degree of discrimination, but one can still be "honest" by looking for the appropriate truth for the occasion. If one is motivated to cover-up and thus protect themselves (or another) from the harm caused by some past deed of theirs, then there is more involved than just employing selective seeing in order to make someone feel good. There is an attempt to thwart the karma of some past action by interposing one's own separate will in the attempt to deflect the many repercussions of the original act. These acts of deceit create more karma which must then again be thwarted by even more acts of deceit, and thus there is a compounding effect. At some point, the interest rate becomes too high, and one has to pay the piper. Better to pay off a debt the first time, than to have to pay it later, with compounded interest, but either way, we eventually learn to either pay the debt off quickly, or (even better) how not to incur those types of debts in the first place. So, to answer the original question: Q: Is it imperative to always be honest? The day of reckoning occurs when the karmic balloon payments start coming JC _____________________ N. writes:
N. Either way, there's repercussions. If we could only see what the repercussions would be for our choices, we could make a freer choice. In lieu of that, however, we choose based upon what we know, feel, and desire NOW, and learn from the consequences. Until we overcome our fear of death, the threat of death, can be used to cause us to deny who and what we truly are. So, how can we honor truth inside of us, when we are being coerced into telling lies to ourselves and others? To always honor the truth (as we understand it), we must look for it and find it, even in the faces of our (potential) executioners. When put on the spot, one who is sufficiently aware, can always find a truth appropriate to the occasion. Should societies exist, that ask you questions that get you hurt if you tell the truth? Should you exist if you ask someone a question, and then punish them if they don't give you an answer which pleases you? We're all learning from our mistakes, both individually and collectively. Learning from our mistakes via their repercussions is a privilege of being alive. "Shouldn't the society that asks those kinds of questions be the ones who get the karma, and not the person who protects themselves from undeserved consequences?" As Clint Eastwood (in the movie "UnForgiven") said: " We ALL got it com'in." Thank God! JC. _____________________ > All the following convinces me to be selectively dishonest. Telling the
truth can be dangerous to your health. NJ The lessons I've gleaned from life so far are these: It is more important to be honest than it is to be good. If you can't say something nice, don't say anything. (you can almost always find something appropriate to say, which is also true). If you can't tell the truth (in any direct form) or keep quiet, then you still have alternatives to lying. The Tarot itself is an example of one such alternative - truth concealed, not by lies, but by Symbolism. _____________________ 07 Jul 2001 My query was in particular about why it seems that BOTA do not have guided visualizations, other than the detailed "imagining" work of the Tarot cards. And I do not mean this to be negative or critical in the least . Every school has their own methods . I respect all of them . I just noticed that other schools have a developed use of guided visualization , and one for example utilizes them as its main focus and outwardly at least has no other activity. Elias _____________________ When i was affiliated with BOTA, my understanding of their standardizing of imagery was that the student would be led to automatically image that which s/he needed by the Teacher Self. I found that imagery included some pretty raunchy stuff in my case. Didn't realize till later why i needed that but i did. We usually don't see why until much later but we never get anything we didn't need. Being honest with yourself, don't you find some rough stuff showing up in your wish images? IMO, honest recognition, instead of denial, is of more value than angelic images. Not ready for that yet? Earthy makes it for me--with humor, of course. How do i visualize that? No luck--it just pops out without imagery. Joseph _____________________ Joseph I too had similar experiences when I commenced meditating . I was really perturbed at first by the flood of graphic imagery and went to speak to my Sufi mentor who listened patiently . He was in his 80's at the time . His sole comment was "Too much sex is not good and not enough is no good ." Whereupon the imagery subsided completely. Elias _____________________ IMO, we don't spring fully honest with ourselves when first on the conscious path. Our inner arranged "no goodness" is too pervasive. But that honesty grows with the repeated, though somewhat painful, rewards it's even occasional practice brings. It gradually becomes a liberating habit and the recognition of the Teacher Self bringing patterns to our attention to be recognized and be given a choice of expressing them or not. Ah, Sweet Mysteries of the Path! The practice of the Tibetan Fast Path, where no thought is repressed but is examined--impressed me when i learned about it as I had observed that had become almost my daily practice. IMO, I believe all on the path will be led to that free, deliberative position and recognize that all images/thoughts are neither good nor bad but food for growth. Mothers are not changed by the nature of their offspring. We remain the Self, no matter the nature of our expressions leading us to Self realization. Like Binah, we remain pure and undefiled. Good thread here. This idea seems to eliminate a great gob of conventional Theology. Does civilization really require sinners? Further thoughts on the subject. Since we are all sinners in the Theological definition, the answer is YES! But God is a great "Red Herring" expert. HE/SHE stirs in the belief that our sins keep us from knowing God , and/or God loving us and calls us "impure." Much pain experienced in the expiation process of "purification" of what God has produced as the greatest incentive to Self realization. There are many such "red herrings" leading to awareness. Watch for them in your self righteous attitudes. Joseph
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