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ForgivenessN.J. writes: Forgiveness begins with one person thinking another has committed a wrong but
forgives him/her nevertheless.. Assumption of wrongness is necessary before
forgiveness is extended. N.J., I think you are expressing a skewed definition of forgiveness. If you owe me $100 and I forgive the debt owed (karmic or otherwise) was the debt a result of "wrong-ness"? All actions have objective karmic consequences (pleasant, unpleasant, or
neutral). Forgiveness releases these consequences from the necessity of
manifesting on the same plane as the action, and thus frees up the energy so it
can operate as grace. Thus forgiveness operates (and "may" be
identical to) the same as "letting go", or detachment from the results
we get. for example: So the whole issue of forgiveness is not about "wrongness", but about releasing our attachment (or better yet, not allowing the attachment to take place in the first place) to form ("form" here referring to the form which our unpleasant results happen to take), thus allowing the form to dissolve and release the energy (emotional, mental, and spiritual) for more productive uses. So Forgiveness is symbolized by K13 - Death; the dissolving of the result/form because we were able to let-go of it. Un-forgiveness is also symbolized by K13, except that the form that dissolves in this case is the vehicle which holds on to the attachment. We can let go of the match and let it burn itself out, or hold on to it and get burned to ash ourselves. This gives an interesting take on the concept that Jesus Died for the Forgiveness of Sin. Perhaps one interpretation is that the Self allows it's vehicle to undergo the crucifixion of the flesh to the extent that the vehicle remains attached to the results of its actions. Like holding on to a lit match too long. So it all comes back to the fact that we kill ourselves by not being able to
let go of our shit - the outworn forms which we once created, yet held on to
past their time. JC ===================================================== N.J., After reading your response to Mike and myself, I think that I you still are not expressing the REAL meaning of forgiveness. You continue to put forward the assertion that forgiveness is an erroneous limited response motivated by the desire to "look better" than another (the supposed offender). You're mixing the limited expression of the ideal (how forgiveness is often mis-practiced) with the ideal itself(the Real meaning of Forgiveness), and thus are "missing the mark" , yourself. But that's OK, because I forgive you for trying to be naughty. And the world still turns ... :-) JC P.S. We can easily cite examples of false forgiveness motivated by Pride, Envy, Anger, Sloth, etc.., but what is TRUE Forgiveness? What is it's motivation? This was what I was addressing in my last email. ============== N.J. writes: JC, you misinterpret me but I forgive you. Like I forgive all the bastards that do that to me. Ann said that when forgiveness is real it comes from being able to place ourselves in the shoes of another. I.E. we identify with them! We become the forgiver and the forgiven. Quite a trick! and it's the only way it really works. === Awesome! Thank you, N.J., forgiven us this gem! Wasn't it Jesus who said "Father forgive them, for they know not what they do" ? He was more concerned about what the people were doing to themselves by crucifying him than he was about himself being crucified. To forgive is better than not forgiving and honestly condemning--or is it? To falsely forgive or honestly condemn. That is the question. Whether tis nobler to suffer upon others the slings and arrows of outrageous condescension or to take up our grievances with the "other" directly. I say honest condemnation is "better" for the person doing the condemning, because the condemner can't as easily delude them self about their true motivations. Thus, honest condemnation is a better discipline for the condemner. It helps them see the WHY of their motivations. So I encourage everyone not to forgive me, but instead to condemn me. That's because it's better for YOU if you condemn me. **Thus by encouraging your condemnation, I'm actually identifying myself with YOUR needs, helping your evolution, and thus Really Forgiving you! JC P.S. ===================================================== S.E. writes: "I think forgiving is a method of relinquishing negative energies that result in stagnation and the perpetuation of stagnation. Forgiving is a dross-remover. It feels Great to forgive. It tells our higher self that we are willing to LET GO, to SURRENDER. It is this programming that allows us entrance into the arms of the Beloved. That allows us a taste of that Samadhic glory of our HGA. FORGIVENESS is Fire, it burns up our old karmic attachments. The key lies in relinquishing our attachments and aversions to this life pattern that we exist within, and forgiveness to our selves and all sentient beings allows for the appropriate planting of new patterns for a better tree of LIFE."
Great post S.E.! Whether one calls it "emotional management" or Forgiveness, or Surrender, or Letting go, it's all a form of ALLOWING it to happen, instead of trying to make it happen. "Filled with Understanding of it's Perfect Law, I am guided moment by moment, along the path of liberation" JC ===================================================== S.E. writes: I have fallen into something that I FEEL and SEE as similar to your own
Darkness. I would term my experience as falling into a Standing Wave of
Non-motion and of being swallowed in the most nurturing Silence I have ever
felt. A completeness that touches ecstasy. A feeling of being made whole through
Death. A part of me died, only to replaced with what I found in that Darkness.
IT absorbed Me....if that makes any sense... But, I am unsure if this is
the same thing you are speaking of? Mine was experienced during the trials of my
Dark Night. And I AM definitely NOT THE SAME. It was a painful experience
in the sense that I did not want to relinquish what I was previous to that, but
in reflection it was a BLESSING from God. Yes, it sounds very similar to my experience. I like your phrasing "A feeling of being made whole through Death." I think that sums it up well. As an interesting side note, notice the tarot key series 12, 13, 14. Surrender, Death, Initiation. I once wrote a short article on this key sequence . . . . . let's see if I can find it .... hold on ..... I sent this to the list back in September of 1996! Wow, that was a while back! Re-reading this article, I see that it was on 11-12-13. Could there be a relationship between "being made whole through death" and the concept of forgiveness? Forgiveness here meaning a dissolution of those "things" which are blocking us from greater livingness. In reading the article below, one could replace the word "forgiveness" with the concept of "falling into the void / being stripped of our attachments / death". And of course, I don't mean just physical death, but more generally "dissolution" of form, whether that form be a physical thing, or a relationship, or a concept, or an attachment to something. It is especially interesting to look at the magic square for K13, to see the possible corollaries to this experience. Speculation, certainly, but interesting all the same..... JC ========= I see Key 13 (Death) as the primary symbol for Forgiveness. To forgive is to DISSOLVE a debt owed. To forgive is to bring about a redirection of the serpent power (Kundalini Energy) from the Mars center to the Venus center. Forgiving is returning Force/Power/Volition/War with love. Turning the other cheek. Forgiveness has to power to TRANSFORM. A prerequisite to the act of forgiveness, is the attitude shown by Key 12 (The Hanged Man). Key 12 is mem=water and provides the necessary environment for the fish=Nun= Key 13. To truly forgive we must overcome our lower selves (lower ego), and depend on God. Let go and let God. The attitude of the Hanged Man is a REVERSAL of the common reaction to pain, injury, and mistreatment. Also related to forgiveness, is the act of making amends for the objective harm caused by the other persons offense. In other words, if someone is unkind to you, you return their unkindness with kindness towards them, AND towards all others. This relates to Key 11 (Justice). It is using Justice in a positive Pro-Active manner (balance Action) to overcome evil with good. For Easter, one of the primary symbols is the Three Crosses of Calvary. Upon reading Luke about the other two people who were crucified with Jesus, I discovered a relationship with the three above keys (11-12-13) and symbol for Calvary:
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========= =========
====== ======
=== === 11 12 13
Faith Loving Sacrifice Forgiveness Also Justice Crucifixion
Karma
Old Testament New Testament
Thief who said Thief who asked for pardon
"If you're the son "Remember me when you come
of God, then come into your kingdom"
down from the cross"
Reflecting the
Old Testament
attitude of the
Pharisees. The Serpent Water=Necessary The Fish (Nun)
uncoiled and environment for The redirection of the
active. the fish. Serpent (Kundalini)
from the Mars center
(Volition/Sex) to the
Venus (Love) center.
Thief who said Thief who asked for pardon "If you're the son "Remember me when you come of God, then come into your kingdom" down from the cross" Reflecting the Old Testament attitude of the Pharisees. Forgiveness is moving from Mars (Volition/Sex) to the Venus (Love) center. Also, much insight can be gained by looking at the tarot square for Key 13. Aspects of Forgiveness
Look at the combinations: 9 - 13 - 17: Forgiving(13) is the agency whereby the One Will(9) brings us peace, tranquility and revelation(17). 10 - 13 - 16: Forgiving frees hierarchical forces (10) from the necessity of creating karma, and thus they can operate in the form known as grace(16), which serves both to awaken us, and destroy falsehood. 11 - 13 - 15 Forgiving breaks karmic bondage(15). We use pro-active balanced action (11) to overcome evil with good. 12 - 13 - 14 Forgiving as an act of sacrificial love and total dependence on God (12) , puts us more and more under the direct guidance of our Holy Guardian Angel(14). With forgiveness our growth experiences become less and less karmic, and come more as tests and initiations from our Holy Guardian Angel(14). It is also interesting to look at the sum of the magic square for Key 13. The magic square sums to 39 which further sums to 12. I'll leave it here. JC ______________________________________ 14 Jun 2001 Forgiveness is considered such a basic Christian act of brotherhood that it is hardly considered in an analytical sense. It is deemed so virtuous that it is beyond discussion. However---Basic esoteric teaching says there is one Doer. How does the Self need to forgive Itself from a judgement of wrongdoing by Itself? If, from this teaching, we judge no act evil and all of the Self, what do we need to forgive? From the human Point of View, are the results of all actions, which is reaction, corrective of our disunity? Of what importance is forgiving yourself? Does it imply a mistaken judgement of the Doer--a dualistic belief that "I did it." Is forgiving a person "better" than thinking there is nothing to forgive? Here is more than food for thought, you now have a whole meal to think on. Joseph.
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