Dungeons and Dragons

Roelie,

Fantasy role playing games strike me as playing make-believe with archetypal imagery and acting out what-if scenarios.

So looking at Fantasy-Role Playing as a PROCESS, it seems to resemble Meditation (See Key 17). We could spend considerable time looking into how this PROCESS is described by the various tarot keys.

HOWEVER, equally important is the CONTENT of these meditations (games) - both the "conscious" content and the "subconscious" messages and suggestions contained in the symbolism that you're "playing" with.

I played Dungeons and Dragons once when I was in college (some 18 years ago!) so I have some idea of the symbolism, as well as from looking at D&D books and games in bookstores, etc... and I would have to say that the content is largely composed of images of :

Monsters Dragons Violence & killing Getting Treasure Adventure and exploring the "unknown" Meeting strange creatures and either using them or killing them to meet your own goals. Cooperation amongst fellow adventurers.

These are all interesting and glittering images from the astral levels - similar to many "fantasy" novels and comics.

Furthermore, the CONTENT of these "games" espouse a set of (rules) values which is basically one of "seek-kill-acquire". To be successful, you have to model your actions consistent with this set of VALUES.

So basically what you have with D&D (fantasy-role playing games) is a powerful and effective PROCESS that delivers a CONTENT that is from the lower astral levels.

For those who have "issues" to work out on these lower astral levels, these games may serve a useful purpose, but I have also seen the human wreckage caused by those who have dallied too long there.

So D&D, while entertaining, is also an effective Trojan Horse, delivering a set of values (from the lower astral levels) that you may or may not want. (I would not want these values implanted in me!)

This process in other forms is also known as a "media virus" or "meme".

With Tarot, on the other hand, the symbolism depicts the fundamental principles, laws, and states of the universe that when meditated upon, raises the vibration of the individual to that frequency. With the Tarot, BOTH the "Process" and "Content" serve to accelerate one's spiritual growth.

JC

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Thank you very much for your comments! There's a lot I can do with it.

I agree with JC about the usual content of D&D. Those are not my kind of values too. I want to add one thing however:

The values/contents you put in depend on your co-players. And there are other ("more grown up") systems besides D&D that do focus on other themes; For example: confrontations with some of the fears people have: death i.e. growing up, or becoming stagnant. Sometimes moral issues turn their head. You will deal with guilt, conscience, sacrifice, pride, hope, freedom, faith, destiny, love, making choices, responsibility etc. I often told stories in which the question about reality and the different ways to look at it, shape it, was a central issue. (That's a system/game too.) I threw in lots of confrontations. "Asking" the players "What will you do? How will you become?". The story often will follow the quest-theme of the archetypal hero. But than again, my stories are mostly myth-inspired, which is just my personal approach.

Again many thanks,

R.

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"The values/contents you put in depend on your co-players. And there are  other ("more grown up") systems besides D&D that do focus on other themes"

I agree with you. In fact in any field of persuasion (and "guided role-playing" is very much a persuasive/influential situation) ETHICS is of critical importance.

In any rhetorical/ persuasive situation you have at least three components:

The Sender (Magician = proactive & initiating)

The Receiver (High Priestess = receptive )

The Message and its medium. (Speech: either K7 or K16)

As the person guiding others through this mythical landscape you take on the role of the Magician by directing the attention [K1] of others. This is done by describing a process or scenario which makes the participant drop their resistance and become very suggestible [K8] as they play "make believe". The Magician in this case must also code the message in appropriate language [K7].

Allowing someone to play "make believe" with you with them as the guide is really opening up your mind to their directions. So WATCH OUT! In this way seed ideas are planted in the subconscious [K2], thus resulting in the generation of vivid imagery [K3]. In this way one can even instill and direct the desires of others. Advertising and storytelling both use suggestion to motivate (stimulate particular desires).

Next, these generated images are then further manipulated as the participant tells the guide what they're doing and thinking in this "make believe land" and the guide can then further systematize and direct their imagery, thus the guide takes on the role of Emperor [K4] for that person.

This is what also happens in therapy, where the therapist assists the person in contacting their own inner truth, by helping the person make sense of their own imagery (systematizing it as in K4). They're helping the person use the principle of the Emperor so the person can contact their Hierophant.

In ethical, positive instances of this process the "guide" helps the person contact their own inner truth (spiritual intuition of K5), thus helping them to better discriminate (K6) and find inner harmony.

So the process goes:

As you can see ETHICAL behavior on the part of the "Guide" makes all the difference between a therapeutic, liberating and healing experience and the manipulation/exploitation which results in bondage.

Knowing what I do about the PROCESS, I would have to REALLY TRUST someone before I would let them be my guide. The wrong choice could literally result in bondage.

JC

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You gave me some very interesting descriptions of the process in the previous "persuasion" and "Role-playing and Fantasy"-mails. There is much in there that I've never really thought about. You make me re-examine the subject. Thanks!

I think I can agree with both of you. Both can happen. There are many aspects to role-playing. I put them on the list before. Basically it comes down to this. You have two phases:

1) There's preparation-work: * Player: Creating your character. There may be a few guidelines, but basically you are free in its development. It is often auto-graphic, imagining how you could be. No/very little guidance in here. * Guide: Creating a story. Sometimes you will have an ongoing story to start with and let the characters mingle. But my experience is you base it on your "land of make believe" (often very much like the world we live in--> pick countries/cities/places that breath the atmosphere you want) and on the characters and their players wishes. When you start combining and associating these materials a few powerful plots may come to mind (inspiration). You will try to make them happen and, based on the characters decisions, figure out an interesting direction from there. It's very much like the realist-genre in french literature (Emile Zola f.e.). The novel was their laboratory of real life.

2) And there's play-time: * Player: Playing out your character. Interaction between players in character, that makes you improvise and explore the many aspects of yourself. You state your actions, make your choices and work to some goal you set for yourself. * Guide: Running the script. You direct the characters from scene to scene. Most of the time you spent connecting the different components and storylines. As a guide you try to serve the player the best way you can, learn and enjoy in the process.

The ideal situation is players having an equal voice to the one of the storyteller in deciding what way the story goes. All are "the magician". Sometimes when all minds are set on the same idea and theme this actually results in a wonderful session. This is close to what W. described, improvisation theatre (I was in a group like that a year ago) and the beauty of improvising and expressing yourself through acting.

JC does make a point though in pointing out the "but". Because in role-playing, this consensus is seldomly attained. The guide has the final word in what's to happen. It's true (s)he may abuse this. Often unintended too. I do not fully grasp what JC means by manipulation/exploitation of the guide, resulting in bondage (So please correct me if I misunderstood you). I suppose you mean to say that the guide cultivates dependency on the part of the player, at least concerning the aspects (s)he plays out in the character. Also a guide could instill "untrue" desires, values and errant models of thought within the player, as well as good ones.  I sense this might be right.

But I also sense an automatic defense mechanism against dependency and beliefs that conflict your own. Even when this happens on an subconscious level. Because you sense the conflict occurring during play-time. You will detach, relieving the tension by witty remarks, reservation, smug looks etc. Of course I may well be too optimistic. Because, just when I was going to state another fact that gets in the way of manipulation (the number of players which often is too large to focus manipulation on one player and make it accurate) I realized this does not stop the success of subtle commercials either. Being discriminative, however does, if you can.

I don't know whether trust is something given right away, by letting somebody guide a game you play in--> and then you're defenseless. You could follow the guide with reservation and discrimination. (S)he should earn your trust. And even when you trust your guide, it's no use to follow blindly.

Well, this is as far as I can go at this point,

Thanks, and thanks again!

R.

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JC wrote about role playing games.... and... I'm not sure what to quote or exactly which of his many points to reply to... the fact is... I could write a book about role playing games in general and JC's statements in particular... first... I'll say.... yes... role playing does make use of archetypical images and in a more direct and personal way than one would find in various forms of media... and yes... there is some danger in that... however... the gist of many of the rules is less treasure hunting and non human killing.... as JC states... and more "The heroic tradition" which... on a exoteric level is along the lines of "Good guy defeats bad guy... Good guys live happily ever after"... at it's most basic it is a quest for adventure... now... JC used the abbreviation d&d and he equates that to "role playing games".  Wrong... d&d=Dungeons and Dragons. One specific role playing game that has become highly commercial over the years. Most of what he said is based on his one experience and slight reading years ago. I have been a GM (Games Master) for the last 21 years. There are hundreds of role playing games... all with their own rules... and... most of the rules tell the GM to ignore the rules if they so desire... basically.. the rule books are source books to give a GM and his or her players the flavor of a particular mythos to work with... so... there are as many archetypes in use in role playing games as their are GM's and players... basically.. the way a role playing game works is... a GM creates a mythological world or setting... with prepared situations... which he presents to the players through speech or pictures or playing pieces as he desires... and the players assume the roles of characters within those mythos and react to the situations presented in ways consistent with the fictional characters... when the games are played correctly... characters evolve in much the way people do... in many ways... it is like a group of people putting together a novel or a play as a joint effort.. and... I have seen players that get too involved with their characters... now.. JC is right to point to the dangers... which are real... but... as with any form of entertainment... I think that role playing is only dangerous to personalities who are likely to obsess on that form of entertainment... I haven't seen any lives ruined by weekly role playing games in someone's home.... where GM and players are often friends working together to in effect.. come up with an interesting story... I have seen people wrecking their lives in unsupervised internet role playing games... but.. I have seen people who don't know anything about role playing games doing the same thing to themselves on the net with just their on line personas... and... I don't think it is role playing that is hurting these people as much as the fact that they are looking to fantasy to fill a void in their lives... now... in weekly, in someone's home, role playing games I have seen people play characters of the most vile evil... or the greatest nobility.. I have seen GM's who make it a game about treasure and violence... and.. I have seem GM's who try to use the archetypes to teach lessons... hopefully... I am one of these.. but in the end... a role playing game is a group effort... and what it is... what it does.. what effects it has... depends on the group... and... I think that everyone by now knows.. that a large part of safety... knowledge.. and learning... has to do with choosing the groups you spend time with... as to the question of whether or not the casual use of archetypes is in and of itself dangerous... I don't know... but it strikes me that exoteric religion... entertainments... and writing... have been doing this since we've had symbols to play with... and.. I can't help but think that the real access to the power of an archetype only comes with guidance from the inner teacher... and... at most... playing with symbols... merely puts access to the inner teacher within reach.... Bob S.