Desire

07 Mar 2002

This concept that only the benevolent, the kind, the nourishing acts are spiritual is very interesting. And all the painful acts that instruct us smartly are UNspiritual?? Does this mean that the One doer can do unspiritual things, even if it smartens us up. Heresy!

The "physical" expresses nothing of itself, Only consciousness--the Doer--expresses. This moments thought: Learning to enjoy the journey from unconscious to conscious takes the bumps out of the road. Or makes us laugh at them rather than groan. Life's mirror does that. Joseph

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From Ann Davies: "It is more spiritual to want a new dress than it is to want nothing but spirituality."

So what's the difference between the average person wanting [fill in the blank] and a spiritual aspirant wanting [fill in the blank].

RL
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That good ole Adept at paradox, RL, is with us again. "Wanting" is life teaching itself, no matter its object. Will somebody tell me "what is a spiritual aspirant? How does one become spiritual if that is what we already are??? I know, you just try harder. Joseph

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___REY___
Out of curiosity...what is you definition of a "spiritual aspirant", Joseph?

___JOSEPH___
One who pursues "wants" of any kind, Rey. All action produces greater self awareness. But this is just my peculiar definition that i have been led to by pursuing my wants.

Treacherous things--wants. They inevitably lead us to realize that we are where we want to be, have been, and will be--NOW!.

The Great Work is realized as the results of pursuing each individual's sequence of "wants."

We are at the mercy of the Divine "want maker."

Joseph

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16 Oct 2001

Recently, I read something about the phrase "I want." As long as you say "I want this or I want that," you will continue to "want." Each time we say that we "want" something, we are affirming the want in us. Why not affirm moving beyond the "I want" stage, we can say something positive about where we desire to be at this moment.

Of course, we have to start in "I want" in order to move beyond it. Do we really want to affirm that we are in want or do we 'want' to move out of the want stage?

After affirmation of where we would like to be... as being there already, active imagination creates the action in the external world.

Do what you want? Why not "do" it? On the other hand "doing what we want" is part of the illusion pictured by our old friend Key 15.

Yes, God gives us free will....free to choose the will of God or the will of ego. The discernment in choosing to hear the voice of the angel through our subconsciousness and so acting or in choosing the chains binding us to further darkness.

Food for thought. Paula

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Paula, I see desire, not as a sense of lack as in "want", but as an invitation to a marvelous dance.

What is felt as desire is our response to being beckoned:
- an enthusiastic response to the call of our beloved
- be she dressed in rags or in the garments of heaven.

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26 Apr 2001, 06:44:31 PM

I remember reading in "The Light on the Path," I believe--"KILL OUT DESIRE!"--First page! I remember going to Ann, quite puzzled about this statement from what i thought was a revered book. She put me straight about this being a Victorian error of a lady writer (I believe) and her understanding of the Eastern Path. But killing out desire:

1.required the presence of a desire to kill itself.
2. Was neither desirable nor possible as the life force in a manifesting mode started as desire in all living forms. No desire--no motion!
3. Trying to kill out desire was evidence of an unsound understanding of the Life process.
4. Desire was one of the great blessings in life as our greatest teacher.

Hard to see how any thoughtful person, religious or not, could overlook this. Can't remember this as the standard dogma of any Eastern religion Joseph

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To just sit and think that you can "know God" by withdrawing from the world is the surest way to lose your way. Granted, your (and my) desires are at this point not "pure". So what! The only way to purify them is by TRANSMUTING them. And you cannot transmute something by letting it sit idle or by pretending that it does not exist. You've got to heat it up by setting goals and pursuing them. Only then can you transmute that which is unworthy into that which is worthy of God. God gives you DESIRE so that you WILL DO, in order to BECOME.

So, what do you WANT to BECOME?

If you disengage from Life, then Life will disengage from you. The way to get closer to God is by pursuing Self Fulfillment. Only when you are fulfilled can you radiate love, kindness, and see what lies behind the mask. This is because you have to realize these things inside of yourself first, before you can act as God's agent and radiate God's love, beauty, kindness, and hope to others.

The universal desire for Self Fulfillment is the Self's desire to purify its vehicle so that IT (The SELF) can express through its perfected vehicle (you). Just because this universal desire comes into your self-conscious awareness as something specific and apparently "selfish" is no reason to disrespect God's Gift.

jc
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i have only to look upon things differently there is no me there to build (ego/personality) the me that is there and is real is already perfect

K
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If God did not intend for you to build your (his) vehicle (body/personality) here on Earth, then you never would of been born. You can't "look upon things differently" unless you build a vehicle capable of doing so. And you can't build this required vehicle (senses and discriminative faculties) by sitting on your duff.
jc
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and to think that anything at all (except to undo the interferences i have put there) i can not create myself never could only dreamed that i could and that there was anything that needed done) what would be the purpose of "developing ones spiritual muscles?" except ambition and selfish desire? K.
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K, even ambition and selfish desire are infinitely better than no desire at all. At the root of ALL DESIRE is God's Desire.

To reiterate:
Developing one's spiritual muscles comes as a result of using/developing our discrimination as a result of pursuing specific (self-interest) Goals. We pursue these specific goals because we DESIRE to do so. This desire at its root comes from God.

So from our perspective, God is giving you the bait so that you'll develop into a more refined instrument for God.

From God's perspective, God is instilling desire into one of his vehicles as a means of perfecting that vehicle for his own use, expression, and pleasure.

jc
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I agree that we should not condemn the ego/personality (which is illusory at best) ( one who would condemn still invests belief in its effects, ie separation from God and Creation is real) that is important and something that i am "looking at". But we will never know God/Truth as long as ambition or selfishness reigns in its multitude of forms (even in the name of spiritual betterness) for me undoing ambition and selfish desire has been painful and i have "a ways" to go i must learn this lesson better. K.

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You will never know truth as long as you attempt to stifle your desire. Only by getting what you want can you TRANSMUTE your wants.
jc
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as long as i believe in my own powers separate from God i will continually be disappointed

i let the ego/personality be what it is. even when i say (or think about the) ego or personality the image i am referring to is nothing but a thought/image in my mind i can tell myself i am improving it for the next ten thousand years but that doesn't make it so
K

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Telling yourself anything does not make it so.

Only by VERIFYING for yourself can you find out what is true and what is not true. You do this necessary verification by acting in apparent self-interest to pursue your goals of getting what you WANT.

Life is an ever continuing spiral process of refinement/evolution.

Desire1-goals1-action1-reaping1-discrimination1-Desire2-goals2-action2-reap ing2-discrimination2, ...etc...

As this spiral process continues ad infinitim, you transmute your desires from base Desire1 to more and more refined purified Desires and so on, and so on in accordance with your (the SELF's) vehicle's growing ability and awareness.

Note that this process of life requires that we participate by taking action in order to get what we WANT.

So K, I implore you to decide what you want, and GO FOR IT!

Remember, there is no failure. The Only failure is failure to try.

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Date: Wednesday, December 16, 1998 10:50 PM

Of course there is only one way, K. It is this:

Do what you WANT to do.

"What do you WANT to do?" is the evolutionary engine of the Universe.

The secret here is that "at it's root all desire is good, and comes from God", therefore God is the Doer behind EVERY mask. Life is a pretty amusing game, I'd say. God must really be enjoying this play of his! JC
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JC,
the above words need some clarification in order for me to agree with them

i really enjoyed and benefited from the rest of your comments and was indeed really impressed with the clarity from which you communicated.

the words i copied above however seem to not quite sit right with my inner teacher. perhaps along the same lines as our discussions at the garden the other night. my problem focuses around

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It is possible that when you see the words "do what you Want to", you envision it giving one license to do anything they damn well please to anyone they please. In other words, you may be interpreting this statement as giving the ego license to be as selfish and destructive as it want to.

This is one of those seeming paradoxes, for "do what you Want to" is (in my mind) not an imperative, but a description of the way things (already) ARE.

JC
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Do what you want to do (with no mention or qualification) does not work for me. perhaps you did qualify by saying at its root (or source) but then the question becomes what is my responsibility until such a time that my desire is in tune or one with that root or source. is your answer none? K.

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What is your responsibility?

K., you are still going to do what you want to do, regardless of what I say or don't say. That's my point.

For those whose find themselves being drawn more and more to the spiritual, wanting to know God, wanting to understand what the game is all about, wanting to bring an end to their (and the world's) suffering, my advise to them is to INTENSIFY THOSE DESIRES AND FOLLOW THEM.

For those who's desires are still mired in the personal, and the material, my advise to them is FIND OUT WHAT YOU TRULY WANT TO BE AND DO. And then INTENSIFY THOSE DESIRES AND FOLLOW THEM.

The only way to find out of course, is to try various things to see which ones work for you. This means taking action based upon one's wants and desires at the time. Even knowing that one's desires are somewhat impure as they are, we still must do. (even if you don't do, you're still doing what you want to do, which is to "not" move in a certain chosen direction) So even in this case they are doing what they want to do. You do not have to tell anyone to do what they want to do, they're doing it already!

I offer two simultaneous explanations:

The process is like an infinite loop in which we evolve our desires by engaging in the game in this space-time arena.
The process is like an infinite loop in which God evolves us by drawing us into the game which holds our attention.

for (x = 1; x==Infinity; x++)
{
    You Dare
    You Will
    You Do
    You Reap
    You Learn
}

The difference between the unevolved soul and the old wise soul, is either that the master has had more iterations of f*cking up and learning than the tyro, and/or the master has learned to accelerate and be more effective in his do/learn/grow cycles.

So when I say "do what you want to do", it is another way of saying learn and evolve, which is what is happening anyway.

"Do what you want to do", is one of those unassailable axioms of life. Even if you disagree with it, you are doing what you want to do by disagreeing!

This is the same concept the saying:

"Even the desire to stamp out desire, is itself, a desire!"

There IS NO ESCAPING DESIRE.

Even death is not an escape. In fact, it is desire that brings about death (and birth).

Why is there no escape from desire?

Because it is GOD who is the real do'er behind all that is.

And apparently God Desires that things stay in motion. Moving towards what, if anything, I do not know, other than to surmise that since all desire is about obtaining more livingness, God must be desiring more aliveness and more livingness in his vehicles (us) so that he can express and experience more and more directly through them as unobstructed and more transparent vehicles for his will (desire).

So where does it all end?

It never ends. Or it ends at the end of time. Or it ends when time no longer IS. (i.e. Cosmic Consciousness, which is outside the game, outside the arena of space-time)

At some point however, we are desiring as God desires, and thus we become direct agents for God's Will. Our will becomes THY WILL.

It is at this point (I think) that we have the choice of either exiting from the game or of helping out our brothers and sisters who still are lost or stuck within the game. JC

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2 the use of the word game. i can't agree that life is a game. it is an incredibly serious matter :-) K.

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I never said that the game was trivial. It is a serious game. It must be if it is to hold our attention. JC

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K.,

You said that your desire is : "to relinquish all desire but one." That's a good seed thought, but it's vagueness robs it. Now elaborate on it.

jc
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K:      you like exact answers, don't you.
JC:    I like honest ones.
K:      i haven't one.
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If this "desire" of yours is indeed vague, then the first task is to get a clearer picture in your mind of this "hearts desire" of yours. Otherwise it remains merely a vague "wish". Are you making a "vague wish" into the sole aim of your whole life? You deserve better. jc
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A man of many desires is in a perpetual hell. K.
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A man of no-desires in in perpetual hell. What could be a worse hell than never-ending boredom? Even base-craving shows more love and respect for God, than foolishly attempting to escape desire by engaging in mental obfuscation.

Keeping ones desires mentally vague and distant is a form of escapism. Yet, there ain't no where to go! Sooner or later, we might as well get down to work at realizing our heart's desire. jc
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K: Why not give up all wants except for that which we have already?
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Why not give up all your "lesser" wants for the "wants" that really count? Without powerful desires, you have no aim in life, and no propulsive power to get there.

I think perhaps you are too timid to really DARE to go after what you TRULY WANT. jc

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i am not sure whether this is possible, but it seems so foolish to always want what we don't have. K.
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The ONLY way to stop wanting is to get what you want (or at least getting enough of a "taste" of it that you can determine if it is "Really" what you wanted).

Then you'll KNOW it, and you'll be able to let go of it when required in order to pursue yet another more refined desire as we learn to be more discriminating (K6). It's a spiral evolutionary process. And there AIN'T NO SHORT-CUTS. It's GOD's evolutionary process:

Desire1 - Mental Creation - Action - Sow - Reap - Learn - Grow in discernment
Desire2 - Mental Creation - Action - Sow - Reap - Learn - Grow in discernment
Desire3 ...etc...
...
...

Until we become an ever-more refined vehicle for God as in:

God's Desire acting through us - Co-Creation With God - Doing God's Will ....

So, again I ask: WHAT DO YOU WANT?
jc

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have fun wanting. i am learning to want what i have and what i am given. K.
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Like I said before, K, I like honest answers. Which is why I am disappointed by your above statements.

Here's an question for you:

If true desire manifests in action, then what do our actions say about what we really desire?

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JC writes
I say "do what you want to do" is the ONLY way. Since ultimately I'm NOT the doer and since it's God who plants the desire (s) in me to begin with, doing what I want to do is ultimately allowing God to "do me" but good in HIS own good time. I think that's about all the spiritual sex I need for the time being. The Will of God is revealed in the desires of men.
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M. responds

I agree with this response to a point, Joe. However, I think "do what you want to do" (hmm, sounds rather Thelelmic) needs to be qualified with a big "if". Do what you want to do IF you are sure it is as close to the One Will as you can get at the moment. Then be ready for the consequences. You may not be as close as you think. M.
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A Real Desire knows no "if". When we're thinking "I want to do X, but what if Y?, what if Z happens?" there's inner conflict. A Real Desire knows only "Must" and "How". Do we want to make images of success or of failure? Maybe there's a subconscious desire to fail hidden in there somewhere.

Conflicted desire is the scourge of humanity. It's our inner ability to limit consciousness being used to limit life. We cut and cripple ourselves with the very sword of liberation (K6). Like someone in a social situation being "self-conscious" and thus not being able to consciously participate in the joy of life. OR Like standing on the end of the high-diving platform, unable to decide whether to jump or go back down the ladder.

If we strike the blow with all our might, we reap the consequences. If we always pull our punches we reap the consequences of that. If we never try, then we reap the consequences of that. Ultimately we end up trying all 3 (and combinations thereof) (K14 style) and come to settle on what suits us best - and there's consequences for that as well, as our HGA continually works on its vehicle (us).

Wrath (K14):

Deer in the headlights
Cat up a tree
Crossing your legs
but don't wanna pee.
Like trying to "think" What's good and what's not?
But Life says: Shit or get off the pot.
Hell knows no Wrath like self-scorn.

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10 Jun 2001

What I am saying is that what the personality perceives as need or yearning may be in error; if isolation is what is being provided, then isolation is what is needed, regardless of what the personality feels. The lesson may be one in delayed gratification; it may be one in discovering how one can connect with others spiritually even if they are not students in the esoteric mysteries; it may be one of learning reliance on the One to meet all of one's needs, etc. etc. Anyone who does not have a study group or Pronaos and wants one, great -- want it with all your heart -- it is through our desires that our growth is found, as the 7 Steps lessons demonstrate so well -- while recognizing that there may be other purposes being served which the personality does not recognize. There are things I want that I do not have, yet I know that all my needs are being perfectly met at all times, as the Pattern on the Trestleboard says in so many different ways. Turiya.

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Damn well said, Turiya. Knowing that what you have is exactly what you need and yet yearning for more seems to be a constant dichotomy on the path. That knowing enables you, in time, to see what your real needs were and the wisdom in which they are fulfilled. Is contented yearning an oxymoron? Joseph

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I am in agreement that one experiences exactly what one needs at each stage of the path. But I believe it is important to understand that every desire is a Gift from God. When a desire is made conscious within our personality, it is a sure sign the situation desired already exists for us at some level.

Desire is simply the way the One lets us know of a new Gift that has been prepared for us. Rey.

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IMO, not necessarily. Thankfully we get few manifestations of what we really want. Some of our wants are mass mind desires that all feel but few need. If you get it you needed it! And the mass mind creations are still Self. Such desires also instruct us in observing WHY we want such thing or events. Unmanifested desires have important value to me. Tests my foolishness quotient and exposes hidden propensities. Most important, desire teaches us to observe--to be the watcher of consciousness. Joseph