Crucifying the Messengers of ONE

<> But what is behind this door, that everyone desires so much?

A particular, scientific method of attainment.

Is that door locked to keep some One out, or to keep some One in? ;^)

I jest, but you speak as if you have direct knowledge that it is true that this locked door hides a scientific method of attainment, and yet I must ask some questions. 

"Who is it that attains?" and "What is it that is attained?"

It cannot be the personality that attains, can it?

N.

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I hate to butt in on this thread like this but I find this mantra of "One" from Noel very distracting. It seems like every time an interesting discussion is ongoing Noel jumps in with something completely unrelated to the discussion and disrupts the entire thread.

I hate to discourage anyone's participation but I find this behavior completely obnoxious. Isn't this list suppose to be a discussion of the teachings of Paul Foster Case?

Best regards,

J.
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Okay Jeff. I quit. Just remember this when you discover the One.

Zeph, please un-subscribe me.

Bye all.

N.
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> Anyone up for the job of Scapegoat Savior? Noel?? ;)

Sorry Rey, if you want me to absolve your sins, you and everyone else will have to listen to what I teach - not send me into the desert to carry your sins away.

I've tried to help you all see that you (all) are God, but that doesn't sit well with some. Too bad. Bye.

N.
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Dear Noel, I hope that you won't unsubscribe yourself. I am really sorry to hear what sounds like you being discouraged because not everyone understands the point of view of where you are at. You have definitely contributed to my growth, and happiness, and I would be sorry to see you go. I hope you will reconsider. love your sister, L.

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Good-bye Noel!

I hope you have more luck "helping other's see that they are God." I know this is very important to you.

Good-luck!

Regards,

J.
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Ave Fratres et Sorores,

The Greater the Adept, the Greater the silence surrounding them. How is it this list is so loud?

The recent events focusing around Frater Noel invokes my thought. I am stirred by the talk of who should and should not un-subscribe. Where, beloved adepts, is thy compassion and understanding? Are we not one family?

Indeed Frater Noel's words are gems of Lvx, I would offer that indeed also Frater Jeff's words are gems of this same Lvx, each being a necessary expression of the One Life as relates to the various particulars of their needs within the One. Their individual rays are each essential components in the fullness of the existence we partake of. Who is worthy to Judge? Both of these dear men are our close kindred and should be treated accordingly. The law, "Love One Another"

L.S.N.C.

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To Brother Noel, my sorrors & fraters on the list, et al .... I think I understand perhaps one of the dilemmas involved here.

What often happens when one expresses a truth that makes others feel uncomfortable? Very often they make you (and your personality) the issue, instead of the truth/veracity of the "truth" being expressed.

This happened to myself a few days ago in a discussion group setting, when after sharing my POV, I was told to "get out of my head."

It's the old "Crucify the messenger" dynamic.

Of course, delivery style also comes into play. Sometimes if one is not subtle enough, it generates resistance and we are not as effective as we could be.

For example, in my previous post to Wisa, I knew that she knew the non-separatist point of view, but still there is in our expression of language a certain flip-flopping which can take place which leaves ambiguity. My response was to remind of the opposite polarity. This is unavoidable so long as one is seeking - taking that "middle way" along the razor's edge.

Which POV side of the Divine Paradox do I choose to stand upon at this particular moment?

I do it myself! In one post I stood on the "relative" side, chiding against the error of the "half-wise". In another post I stood on the absolute side trying to offer a reminder about WHO is the doer.

All truths are but half-truths! To one POV, there is always another. One polarity of expression evokes its opposite polarity!

What to do????????????????

"Transmutation, not presumptuous denial, is the weapon of the Master" - The Kybalion

Not to deny the Absolute 
Not to deny the Relative

Not to deny the Self 
Not to deny the personality

Not to deny our unity with each other. 
Not to deny our differences of experience, opinion, personality, maturity, etc..

Not to deny our brotherhood. 
Not to deny our irritations with each other.

Not to deny our own highest truths and ideals as we currently understand them. 
Not to deny our own ignorance and foolishness.

How about the Transmute part?

1) Burn our copper: Analysis of desires & motivations.

2) Turn it white: Shifting of one's identification from the personality to the Self.

3) Turn it again to redness & make visible coin: Directed into taking some action which has a result on the physical plane (on the "relative" side of the DivineParadox.)

RL (turning again to redness)

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Wow. Look at the balance seeking this event is causing and will continue to cause. An attack on one causes our own impulse to resolve past attacks/hurts to start pumping, and with beautiful results, RL. Events like this make the body of pfc visible. Is that a bad thing? Joseph

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Noel -

It wasn't too long ago that I made a similar comment to Jeff's, that the constant reference back to the ONE, in every discussion held here, IS in fact a distraction -- the reason being that it is simply a show-stopper. You are absolutely, utterly correct in your reduction of all questions to the ALL; the problem is that, once this facet is acknowledged, it becomes difficult to continue the conversation. What more can be said in such a discussion?

Because, you see, the other points are true as well, insofar as we exist in this realm of duality in order to perfect the Stone. On the one hand, Chapter (to cite a recent example) IS a necessity for many in their pursuit of perfection. If it wasn't, there would be no Chapter. Yes, of course we can argue that perfection is already here, that anybody "requiring" Chapter will be moved there by the ONE, etc., but where does that lead us? Case certainly acknowledged that there was an apparent need to work -- yes, work -- towards spiritual attainment. This forum is for the discussion of that work, as put forth by PFC. It is not a bonfire named ONE into which we should throw all of our BOTA lessons. This is a forum for those who have not yet entered into the City of Pyramids.

I'm not going to unsubscribe you, Noel. If you want to do it yourself, here's the link:

Z.

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My disruptive posts are also filled with references to the One in trying to reconcile the differences that appear as a matter of course in the interactions between individuals. Of course, the One is the ultimate reconciliation and makes all discussions that avoid the causative One seem shallow and evasive. 

I have received no invitations to disappear, and there are others on this list who speak from the same foundation--who have profoundly experienced the One and can't ignore it. You have not mentioned the quality--the truth--of Noel's statements, only that they are disruptive. How long should he wait to insert his thoughts onto the screen? Should he ask you first, Zeph? 

Don't you find a ludicrous quality creeping in here? I find Noel's contributions both enigmatic and profound, the most effective kind of meditation provoking material. But they teach no one who is not receptive to that level. 

I regard Noel's departure from this list as a profound loss but instructively arranged by the One. Let's see what happens further. (Notice that i got the One into this post.) I would like to say that i do not find any of the pfc "discussions" disrupting, but I do find many of them boring, stimulating the use of my delete key . 

I can hear Ann's remarks regarding this: "Children must play." Keep on keeping on, as you must. Joseph

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I personally enjoy reading many of Noel's posts and do not want him to stop posting. I do find that at times it can be rather distracting to tread through a post on a particular subject only to find that all arguments have been trumped with a reduction to the ONE. When the regular members of this list post on a *particular* subject matter I know ( from the discussions that have occurred over the past years ) that they understand that there is only ONE Will in the Universe ( and therefore only ONE doer, etc. ). Therefore I believe that countering any argument with such ( unless the argument is explicitly contrary to such a POV ) distracts the discussion. One could argue that there is a DEL key on most ( if not everyone's keyboard ) and this could be used to eliminate the distraction but experience has proved that such a distraction is often enough to loose the track of the entire thread. Frater 

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___ZEPH___
Noel - It wasn't too long ago that I made a similar comment to JimJeff's, that the constant reference back to the ONE, in every discussion held here, IS in fact a distraction -- the reason being that it is simply a show-stopper. You are absolutely, utterly correct in your reduction of all questions to the ALL; the problem is that, once this facet is acknowledged, it becomes difficult to continue the conversation. What more can be said in such a discussion?

___RED_LION___
Well, what has been said, once the "trump card" of ONE-ness has been played?

1) Crucify him! 
Make the person's personality, credibility, or motives the issue.

2) Edjumacate him! 
Try to limit their expression to "proper" threads and subjects so as not to distract people from their current trains of thought (and POV's).

3) Consider his Point of View (POV) 
In doing this, one must arrest their current imaginative train of thought, just like the picture in K12 (Hanged Man) to affect a reversal in POV. And as K12 is the gateway to K13, one must also undergo a reversal by having a change of heart (reversal from Mars center to the Venus center as depicted in the 2 twists in Skeleton's spine). This is a reversal from the Martian separative line of discussion, to the Venutian (Loving) unifying line of discussion. A reversal from struggling, striving, analyzing, rejecting, working, and doing, to loving, synthesizing, uniting, nurturing, accepting, and being.

Perhaps one reason it seems so disruptive to consider the Unifying POV in most threads is because the Unifying POV is a threat to our underlying identification with our personalities. Since we are not used to shifting our identification from self to SELF, we don't know how to respond, and so we move our attention elsewhere and the thread dies off. This is a form of denial which maintains an awareness or feeling of separation.

So what does one do when facing the trump card? (or the dragon, or the adversary, or death, or ....)

Here is one POV on what one might try:

4) "Transmutation, not presumptuous denial is the weapon of the Master." - The Kybalion.

So you see ya'll, the disruptive TRUMP CARD of the Absolute, is but a reminder for each of us to look to the SELF, and that IS the work!

The WORK is in learning how to REVERSE our POV !!!

And OH how hard we resist it.

I know I do. :-)

RL 
(The Joker in the Deck WILL NOT BE DENIED!)

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I truly believe in my heart, given the masterful simplicity to many of Noel's posts, that he deeply understood this and attempted to offer this abode of true security to others. I can see that it is disruptive - thank GOD! And I can completely understand why it would piss off someone like Jeff/Jim. I'd be pissed off too, if my sandcastle was going to be swept away someday and I had my head buried in the sand, hoping it wasn't true. L.
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Hi Lisa,

You assume my head is in the sand and I suppose you are correct relatively so but probably not any deeper than your head or anyone else's. The fact is that Noel wants to be a 'teacher' but to be a teacher requires one to be the best of students. A 'teacher' simply is - he doesn't go around forcing himself on others!

I did not ask Noel to leave the list - that was his comment - and I still bet anything that he hasn't left or will shortly return ( I won't say why I believe this so that I don't risk being thrown off this list though I am starting to wonder why I stay subscribed ).

Zeph says I haven't contributed to this list and I must agree - I prefer not to get involved with all the egomania and personality issues that I continually observe on this list ( especially from that pompous ass egomaniac Joseph N. who has his head buried so deep up his ass that he can only wish it was sand ). Adept? Perhaps ***Inept*** is a better description. "Ann said", "Ann said", I bet he can't remember what his wife said this morning! What a joke - he is so pissed off  he can't see ( or even think ) straight. No wonder Noel is so screwed up.

Regards,

J.

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RL, I thoroughly appreciate your long post on POV--a voice of sanity and equilibrium heard in the midst of this chaos. You are rapidly becoming an important voice in this forum with your POV of detachment, humor, paradox and irony. Your arrows enter lightly carrying this message. Never more needed than now. I shall keep speaking from my head up my ass--so delicately expressed by someone of our Fratres. Reminds me of my military days. The language, anyway. Again, thanks for your support of sanity in the midst of this UNsanity. Joseph

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The reason why DUAL POV fights ONE POV is fear of vanishing, dying and ceasing to exist.

Once dual point of view dared to die in Oneness and discovers that it still exists but being One Dual POV which expresses eternity, this fear is lost.

The great illusion is to think about Oneness should be like any concept Dual has about One.

The miracle lays in that once Dual dares to die in One it will discover that it continues to exist but expressing One through Dualism consciously.

A.

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___RED_LION___
What often happens when one expresses a truth that makes others feel uncomfortable? Very often they make you (and your personality) the issue, instead of the truth/veracity of the "truth" being expressed.

___PAULA___
You always write such thoughtful posts. But here I disagree. Some of us have no idea what the "One comments" are saying to us. What I mean to say is there is no bridge from the discussion to the comments about the One. Those of us left stranded do not see yet how to get across to this understanding of the One as experienced.

It seems as an abyss. While those who are on the other side may need to try a little harder to be more clarifying. The experience of that lightning flash does not make one better equipped to explain any thing much less explain that experience. Perhaps the block we see and feel when we hear those One statements are a reflection of the frustrated desire of those who are trying to make that experience understandable.

It's sorta like trying to explain an orgasm to somebody who hasn't had one.....yet!

___JOSEPH___
You are absolutely right, Paula. It cannot be explained, it has to be experienced, We keep hoping someone will get poked in the right place and have this spiritual spasm. If you have it and announce it you will be immediately attacked by those who have not. It is indeed a foolish thing to reveal. Joseph

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